Believe this or not but for those of you who know me I am an out going guy and do not shy away from doing a lot of unconventional things. With that being said, I was on a flight from Oakland, California to Spokane in November and ran across something (or someone) that sparked my interest and presented an opportunity that I could not refuse. What happened was the person that sat next to me on the plane was a normal looking person, wearing a sweatshirt he appeared to completely fit in. This all changed part way through that flight though, him and I were talking about my schooling and at one point he paused and took off his sweatshirt, the importance of this was while he was taking off the sweatshirt his shirt went up with it and what did I see, he had a swastika tattooed across his whole chest and many other tattoos that I could not completely make out. At first this really nice guy sitting next to me turned into someone I feared a lot. I decided though to be brave and ask him about his tattoo. What then followed was the nice guy that I had been previously been talking to, I talked to him about this class I was taking exploring the white nationalist ideologies and I asked him if I could ask him a few questions about his views and beliefs. This is what he said ( I only had a pad of paper with me so I could not write word for word what he was saying but these summarize his thoughts)
Question- What group are you associated with?
Answer- Arian Nation
Question- What made you want to join a white nationalist group?
Answer- It began with my youth, I did not have a great parents and that left me looking for someone or something to take me in. I was a great student throughout my high school age and a lot of people liked me and I knew everyone (from Coeur d’alene Idaho). This led me to a group of white nationalist in my school that took me to meet an older man named James (gave first name only) who told me about his group and that he would like to introduce me to others. I liked what James told me and made it back to a party and really liked what I saw and heard so I hung around them more and more. It was the family I was looking for.
Question- Do you use the site Stormfront because a lot of our conversations in class have been based on that site?
Answer- Yes I have been on the site many times and like what it has done for white nationalist. We have a common place for us to talk about what we like and dislike, its cool to be able to know that my beliefs are being seen in the same light with someone half way around the world.
Question- I am doing my research on video games specifically based around white nationalist ideologies, what do you think is important with them?
Answer- I can say I have never played a video game before but I like games from all sorts of genre I like war games, car games, sports games. I don’t see my game play following the ideologies of the whole movement because I know that when im playing Madden I am playing a black player, that doesn’t bother me much because the black players are damn good in the games. When it comes to violent games I like them because it reminds me of my grandfather telling me stories about when he was in the military and it makes me want to relive his days.
Question- Do you see the movement growing or shrinking?
Answer- The way I see it, I am not an extreme hardcore Arian brother, I can say im out of the movement I still go to events with my buddies in the group but I can say recruiting is still being done and is one of the main priorities because without new members we cannot continue as a group.
This was interview with a white nationalist on an airplane, I still cant believe I actually did it because for most people seeing that swastika on his chest would mean the end of the conversation but for me it ment a lot more possibilities!
1)You should have gotten a photo with him to have added to this post to help show what a nice Aryan Nation guy looks like.
ReplyDelete2)Do you think he would have spoken to someone of another race had you not been sitting next to him? Did he try preaching his beliefs onto you in hopes of recruiting you? How does this interaction help us understand how white nationalists act in daily life.
What kind of sweatshirt was he wearing? Did it have a logo or team name?
I feel asking for a picture would have been too intrusive so that is why i did not do so. I feel that i was a different race he would have not allowed an interview but might have still talked to me in general. No he was pretty forward with his answers but did not mention a thing about getting involved. I think it helps us understand WN by thinking back to our first assignment that we did, drawing a picture of a WN, in most of the pictures that i saw there was very extreme descriptions such as tattoos all over and someone who would stickout like a sore thumb. When it came to him he looked like a completely normal person that without seeing a tattoo hidden under his shirt i would have not known he was a WN. How this helps us is that they are not always extreme and easily spotted. His sweatshirt was dark blue underamour, so something that i would were nothing special about it.
ReplyDeleteWhat an experience! It's awesome that you were able to talk to a real life person. Most of us have been getting info from Internet sources. People hide behind the anonymity of their handles on Stormfront. Also pictures don't go with the handles. Essentially they are just words on a screen. Hearing those words come from a primary source is just way cooler. I found it interesting he said he enjoyed Madden and even acknowledged how good the black players were. It seems like white nationalists try to discredit and minority whether it be in music, cinema, etc. I would feel that they would try to discredit the NFL because of its high population of black players. He doesn't really play the race card during video games, and I find that kind of fascinating.
ReplyDeleteWow this post gave me the chills. It is fascinating that you took the opportunity to ask him more about his involvement in the movement. I know you didn't have a lot of time to write down everything he said, but was there anything else he said about his involvement that stood out? Did his demeanor change at all when you started asking him questions? I also find this blog interesting because the focus of my blog is youth. It is crazy to see how his involvement begun in almost the same way that Derek (American History X) and Frank Meeink's did.
ReplyDelete@Mike: I *think* the implication about the Madden players might lead into the idea that Black players are more athletically able because they are somehow less evolved and better suited to a less civilized environment. Bryan, do you think this is where he was going? Or do you think he was actually giving "credit" to the Black football players? What would the significance of this be?
ReplyDeleteAlso, you wrote that he is out of the movement but still goes to parties and such...do you think he really IS out of the movement? It differs a lot from Meeink and Derek's stories because once they were even sort of out, they were REALLY out and were even afraid for their lives.